The dark side of free-range, organic and “pasture raised” chicken farming

 In Blog, Diet, Health

It’s no secret that conventional farming is damaging our terrain and is one reason we are seeing a steady decline in the nutrient density of our food supply.

I was connected with Paul Grieve from PastureBird after he asked for me to take a look at the nutrient profile of the chickens he has been farming using a true, pasture-raised method.

Paul is not only on a mission to raise better chickens—his farming practices are rooted in a mission to foster a better food system, and to make this kind of superior nutrition affordable and accessible to more people. 

There is a dark side to free-range, organic and pasture-raised chicken. Watch this video to learn more about what Paul and Pasturebird are doing to address the problems in the chicken farming system. If you prefer to read, the transcript is located below the video.

Pasturebird is a Wahls Protocol® Sponsor. I am grateful for the partnership with this company and sponsorships like this are part of how we are able to produce so many informational resources at no cost to you. I have used affiliate links in this article.  I hope that you do find the information shared to be beneficial!

Read the transcript below:

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Hi there. It’s Dr. Wahls here and today I’m with Paul Grieve from Pasture Bird. Now Pasture Bird is a Wahls Protocol® Sponsor, and these partnerships are a great opportunity to share the products and services that I use in my everyday life. As a matter of fact, we just had one of those chickens and they were delicious. So every day I hear from people, “what exactly do you do?” And how do I do it? So sharing these interviews helps me teach you, my tribe, how and why I use them in my healing journey. So let’s get to this day and talk about this innovative way of farming that I’m so excited about. So, Paul, can you tell us more about how you got into farming?

Paul Grieve:

It actually came to us on a health journey, just like you. I was in Sniper School, in the Marine Corps, and I got bit by about, I don’t know, 70 ticks or something like that, but one of them happen to have Lyme and so contracted the autoimmune condition and started at 22 years old, just feeling like junk, brain fog, and fatigue and arthritis type of joints.

And it was too young to be feeling like that. Thankfully, the idea of clean eating and paleo was starting to hit the Marine Corps around that time. And so it was the first time I ever thought about the food that I’m eating, affecting the way that I feel or perform. Started to eat better, started to fell a lot better. And we thought, “man, we need to start buying better food.” And so we looked for organic, and pasture raised, and grass-fed, and free-range, and all this stuff, and we just couldn’t find pasture raised chicken anywhere. So even though I grew up in downtown Seattle, my brother-in-law went and he ordered 50 chickens and we raised them up in our backyard and unbeknownst to us a little business was born.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

It is remarkable. I bet it was stunning. These first 50 chickens, how different that chicken was.

Paul Grieve:

We didn’t even get to eat very many of them, I got in big trouble for that because they were supposed to be just for us, we have a big family. And about two weeks in, we realized, “oh, this is going to be pretty expensive to do chicken or to raise them this way.” And so I put a few things up on Facebook and social media and just said, “Hey, if any of our friends would like to reserve some of these birds, here’s a link to do it.” And all 50 sold out within about two weeks. And then my family was all “well, what the heck? We’re supposed to get 50 chickens. Now we have none,” so we had to wait till the second batch to try our own chicken.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Wow. Okay. So let’s talk about what a normal chicken farm looks like today.

Paul Grieve:

Sure. If I share any pictures or videos, would people be able to see them or is this more of a podcast?

Dr. Terry Wahls:

I have to make some adjustments to make sure that you can do that.

Paul Grieve:

We can certainly talk to it, but sometimes the picture’s worth a thousand words.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Okay, share cohost and you can now share.

Paul Grieve:

Perfect. Okay. Yeah. So to start, modern day chicken for the last maybe 40 years or 50 years actually has been done in a stationary environment. So you think about a 600 foot long building, 40 foot wide, about 24,000 chickens inside of each one, the birds are largely eating and living and pooping and sleeping in the same place day after day. And I’ll never talk bad about other farmers because I respect anybody who’s trying to grow food and do a good job. But that being said, imagine if you lived in your bathroom and never flushed the toilet, I mean, imagine what that starts to smell like, what it starts to feel like, and how cramped it would be, in a sense that’s a little bit of what’s going on now. So that is conventional industrial, modern chicken farming. And to be honest, there’s parallels with the way that we raise pigs and cattle and sheep and everything else to a feed lot style stationary.

But the scarier thing to me is when you look at free range, or you look at organic, or even this new term pasture raise, that’s starting to come up, a lot of that production happens in these exact same stationary chicken barns with some varying outdoor access type of situation happening. So this is a picture that I share sometimes, this is marketed and sold as a pasture raised chicken farm right here, because the regulations allow pasture raise as long as the birds had access to the outdoors, that they can call that pasture raise. Now, if you look at say this guy right here, or this guy right here, or this guy right here, they may have never gone outside in their whole life. Just because they had access doesn’t mean they have utilization, just because you and I have access to organic food doesn’t mean that we only eat organic foods.

So it’s this nasty term access has really swept through the chicken industry, and it’s abused a lot, people pretty much fall for. Here you go, 600 foot barn, 40 foot wide, 20,000 birds, many of which have never been outside, and that’s being sold to us as pasture raised, free range, organic gap five certified, this is the fanciest chicken that you can buy at Whole Foods, and this is what it looks like. So that’s where we had a real problem with it, it’s not the guys trying to grow cheap food, there’s a demand for cheap food, that’s fine, if we’re being transparent about it, it’s the green washing that we’re really concerned about.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

So what does your farm…. I imagine it’s not like this.

Paul Grieve:

No. And if you could see the screen behind me, when I’m talking that’s a real picture of our real farm

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Stop sharing so we can see you.

Paul Grieve:

Yeah.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Okay. And for a moment, I’ll take myself off, so actually I don’t think I can.

Paul Grieve:

Well, let’s see if that works. So inside of here, we have much smaller flock size first of all, because we want to move animals in nature. And this isn’t something we came up with. In nature animals never stay stationary, they’re always moving. So if you look at bison or you look at wildebeest or you look at deer, they’re never stopped in one place for a long time, the cycle of animals and nature is they eat grass, they poop on the ground, and then they move to the next place. And nature’s system has really been honed like this over a long time where the manure is, it was never meant to be this big liability that’s clouding and polluting our rivers and streams. It’s an asset that builds the organic matter and the health of the soil. So we really believe in that.

So this is a mobile coop right behind me. I’ll share another quick picture. That shows how we move them. So this is the coop from the outside. It’s a solar power self-moving coop. So we just push a button every 24 hours so that the birds get new, fresh pasture. And some people ask, well, “why don’t you just put them out in the open field?” It’s important to note that chickens are prey animals. They’re not predators they’re prey. So they’re consistently trying to find shade, food, water, a hiding place. So it’s really important to give them this shade structure that’s moving along the field so that they don’t have weather impacts, they don’t have foxes, coyotes, owls, bobcat’s all these different things that would love to eat chicken. But that’s what it looks like from the outside, and then from the inside, this is sort of what it looks like, here is my son.

The birds, instead of living on their own fecal material, they’re living on that fresh pasture every single day. So that’s their bedding that gives them the fresh air, but it’s a big source of their feed and their nutrient density too.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Paul, aren’t chickens carnivores or at least omnivores?

Paul Grieve:

Exactly omnivore is the term. This idea of vegetarian fed chicken, it just blows my mind.

Chickens are not vegetarians, feeding them a vegetarian diet is not good for them. They want to find as many bugs, worms, little micro insects, they do this thing, and I think you’ve had chickens before so you’ve seen this, but they’ll essentially scratch the ground and then they’ll back up and then you’ll see them start pecking at that spot. And what that does is it exposes all these little microorganisms and micro insects, and that’s exactly why when you raise birds on this fresh pasture, you see the three times higher, omega-3, more vitamin E, all these micronutrients. It’s a really different nutritional profile.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Let’s stop and talk about that for a moment. No leave that up, I want the slide up. Okay. So the FDA, pardon me not the FDA, the US Department of Agriculture has been monitoring the content of vitamins and minerals in chicken and in beef, so the vegetables, I don’t recall the vegetables right now, but I know in the meat the mineral content has steadily declined over the last 75 years. The vitamin content has steadily declined. The omega-3 essential fatty acids have steadily declined. That was even before we got into factory farming, as we stopped the crop rotations and started using more chemical fertilizer, the nutrient density of the hay and the corn declined, which meant the density of the meat that we’re eating has declined. At the same time, by the way, our health has declined.

Paul Grieve:

You can map it on the same graph, one’s going down and chronic health condition is going up at the exact same thing.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

The vitamins, minerals, essential fats from meat are more easily digested and absorbed and assimilated into your bodies. So you can take fish oil capsules, but if you have your meat and your fish and your poultry are already rich in omega 3s, that will be more effective than taking capsules.

Paul Grieve:

[crosstalk 00:11:19] I’ve heard that, but I’m no doctor, but it’s something like the bioavailability of the nutrients it’s different, right?

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Absolutely. Plants have some enzymes in them that lock up the minerals, and particularly in the grain forms, the minerals are locked up so they’re much harder to absorb, but even in the greens, I can get a lot of these nutrients, but they’ll have to be broken down by microbes in my gut and my digestive enzymes for the human to absorb them. So plants are a critical part of our diet, absolutely. Meat, if you’re a meat eater, is a really important part of your diet, and the healthier that meat is, the more nutritious it’s going to be.

Paul Grieve:

I’ve got a slide here that I show sometimes, this is actually our farm when we first got onto it in San Diego, and this is a 50 year conventional potato farm. And for people that know crops, potatoes are one of the hardest crops on soil because every single year that they grow potatoes, they do something called fumigation. So of course they have synthetic pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, and fertilizers, but they go to the next step of fumigation, which is literally like pressure washing or steam washing the soil to get rid of all the bacterial life they can possibly get rid of.

And so when we got onto this farm, it’s kind of hard to see, but we were under 1% organic matter. And when you stepped onto this farm, your boot, it wasn’t really even soil, it was dust. Your boot would sink in eight inches, anytime it was windy you’d have like the black snot coming out of your nose, and this is after a bunch of rain, it still wouldn’t even grow weeds barely. And the power of livestock that we’ve just lost in the last 50 years, and thank God, there’s finally this revolution and understanding of the integration of plants and animals again, and the importance of plants to feed animals and animals to feed plants. But as we incorporate a chicken,

Dr. Terry Wahls:

[inaudible 00:13:39].

Paul Grieve:

Say that again.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Wait or just a moment, we have many people that are concerned that animal husbandry, growing animals is destroying the planet, in the consumption.

Paul Grieve:

And it is.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

And so they want to switch over to being vegetarian-vegan. What Paul and I are talking about is if we go back to traditional farming, where we save the manure, get the manure on the soil, and now Paul and other regenerative farmers, by doing this in a much more thoughtful, deliberate way, so you can get a higher volume of animals out, a higher output of poop on the soil, and is transformation and organic matter in the soil. This could be a huge part of combating global warming, is regenerative farming. Now back to you, Paul.

Paul Grieve:

Well, and to your point, God bless you, if you’re doing the vegetarian or vegan thing for the planet, and I applaud that, but at the same time, would you rather have your kale or your corn fertilized with a bunch of synthetic stuff out of a lab, or would you rather an animal integration with cover cropping to build healthy soil so that you have nutrient dense kale and corn. So actually I think vegans and vegetarians should care about this, even if they’re not going to eat the meat products, it’s an important thing that we bring back animal plant integration.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

We have to bring back the soil and pooping, we need animals pooping on the soil and have this regenerative farming. Let’s talk about that regenerative agriculture a little bit more where you sort of hinted, can you explain that in more detail for everyone.

Paul Grieve:

Well, it’s maybe the most bastardized term of 2020 and 2021 unfortunately, I think a lot of the bigger companies are starting to latch on to it, and there isn’t a clear definition of what it means, which always means the big corporate marketing departments will just grab it and run with it. But what it’s meant to mean is that we’re leaving the land better year by year. So animal agriculture, instead of striving for sustainability, which is what we’ve maybe strive for for the last 20 or 30 years, and that’s really the idea of just treading water. So sustainability is you’re never getting worse, but you’re also never getting better, you’re in this weird in-between and you and I both know, look at your gut, look at human health, there is no such thing as sustainability, you’re either getting healthier or you’re getting sicker, it’s hard to just perfectly maintain equilibrium forever.

But regenerative is this idea that we can use plants and animals, grown and raised in a specific way to actually improve soil health every year. Or you can do it in a degenerative way, but achieving sustainability perfectly forever is really an impossible, it’s really a theory more than it is a practice.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

If we get to have our agriculture shifted toward this regenerative model so that we are steadily increasing the carbon in the soil and the quality of the soil, that would be a profoundly important shift.

Paul Grieve:

And we’re working with a cool group as we don’t really believe in labels and certifications. I think we always play this game, you name the label, I’ll name a loophole, but I’m really excited about one certification that we’re working with called Ecological Outcome Verification, and that’s done by the Savory Institute; and the way that works is they don’t track any of our inputs or practices or procedures, they’d only come out once a year, and they test the soil health on about 50 different markers, and they give us a score, and they’ll be able to tell us based on our outcomes, whether regenerating or not, it’s almost like a blood test for a human. You get the markers and it’s kind of hard to fake that.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

That’s what we need. Absolutely. That’s what we need. Now you want to talk a little about some of the lab testing you’ve done on the meat and raise.

Paul Grieve:

I’ll share something else. This was pretty exciting when it came back. So talk a lot about the animal welfare, absolutely, I think you’ll never going to see chickens happier than ones that live on fresh pasture. You talked about taste, all of this is really good, but where we get really excited is the nutrient density piece. We sent a bunch of different batches of birds in to the lab from pasture raised, from what we call pasture raise, which is actually pasture raised versus a barn raised bird that had outdoor access, so it could be labeled as pasture raised too, but in our opinion, it’s really not. And we were really excited about some of these results. You have to break these down because I don’t know what all of them mean and what they do for you, but something like it’s not 6% higher in glutathione, six times higher in glutathione.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Yes. Six times higher. So glutathione, big antioxidant. Now when we eat something that has glutathione even if you’re taking glutathione supplement, you are going to digest that into the constituent amino acids. You’ll have to reconstitute it. However, I know many physicians make individuals will take a glutathione supplement, and as I mentioned earlier, from your food, you’ll absorb it better than from a supplement.

Paul Grieve:

ATP is another one that we saw really jumped out at us. So four times higher on that.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

So again, what we’re just seeing that is just a phenomenal marker of the health of the bird, and the diet peptides, the NADH, again, these are phenomenal markers of a healthy bird. I want to point out to everyone, if you’re eating a sickly, diseased animal, you are incorporating the elements that are contributing to that animal’s poor state of health. Could they have a micronutrient deficiency? Yeah, probably. Could they have their slow viral infections compromising that animal? Yeah. Possibly. Are they going to have auto-immune issues? Yes. So you want your animals and the plants you consume to be as healthy as possible.

Paul Grieve:

Yeah. This is another one that we’ve talked to other people about adenylic acid, and that seems to be a pretty important one too.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

It would come to the quercetin, creatine, the quercetin a very potent anti-inflammatory compound. And it’s been actually a compound that’s become very popular with the Corona virus pandemic.

Paul Grieve:

Interesting.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Quercitrin for that. Creatine that’s been used for athletic muscle recovery. It’s been used for neurodegenerative states, neuro information states, people with cognitive decline and brain fog. That’s been very helpful. Again, I want to stress that getting these nutrients in the food leads to much better absorption into your bloodstream, your cellular structures and your health. It’s always better to have it in the food than in a supplement.

Paul Grieve:

And there’s a couple of things that jump out to me, I don’t wear a white coat, I wear boots, but these are the things that we know, and we don’t know what we don’t know. So when you see these positive markers, I start to wonder what else is going on positively versus the barn raise, what else is going on negatively there too?

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Oh yeah, absolutely. When we do metabolomic studies and we do that in our lab, you’ll send off blood and serum and you get a report back literally with thousands of compounds that we are now investigating, which of these compounds are increasing in good health or decreasing good health and how is that related to the foods that we eat [crosstalk 00:22:13] that we research? Absolutely everyone, the health of the plants you’re eating, the health of the animals you’re eating will be translated onto you.

Paul Grieve:

Yeah. And one other anecdotal thing is we hear it all the time, people say “it’s really weird when I eat pasture-raised” and this isn’t just us, by the way, I want to make that clear, there’s a thousand farmers across the country doing true pasture raised chicken. And I love when people support our business, but really if you support anybody in this movement, I’ll be happy, as long as you don’t get faked out by the green washers. But we hear this idea that you go to Costco and you can consume a half of a chicken or a whole chicken sometimes, but then when you eat pasture raised chicken generally hits the tidy after maybe a drum stick and a thigh, and that’s plenty for me, and I’m full and I don’t need any more, my body’s telling me “no, I’m, I’m good,” and I wonder if that has something to do with the nutrient density that you’re getting there.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Oh, absolutely. So what does the future look like from your point of view Paul?

Paul Grieve:

Well, the number one thing is that this idea that animals can be good for the environment, I did not grow up understanding that, I grew up in downtown Seattle, and all that I ever heard is that the best thing you can do is reduce your consumption of animals and eat more vegetables. And it was like dogma, that was just bred into me at a young age. But I actually think this idea of regenerative foods is far more than just animals. I think we need to focus on regenerative food systems, really for plants and animals, and for that matter of fiber, timber, and what we wear, it can all be grown in a regenerative way, and it’s largely not right now. But in order to make that possible, so now the last 10 years has been okay the science supports that we can do regenerative agriculture that’s good for the environment.

Now the challenge is how do we scale some of these things to where you can actually make it not just affordable, but also we say accessible and affordable. How do we get them to the places where people actually shop, at a price point they can actually access. And I think that that requires not just people to spend more, that’s part of it, but I think that us as producers, we need to be really innovative on how do we bring costs out of this and how do we scale some of these systems up to make it a more widespread so that people actually have access to it. Because I think a lot of people would like to buy these types of products, but A they can’t find them, B they can’t afford them.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Okay. So how would they get your birds?

Paul Grieve:

We’re still pretty small, we’re largest company doing pasture raised chicken in the country, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot. So our next smallest competitor doing free range out here in California, we do maybe 10,000 chickens a week, which sounds like a lot, our next competitor doing free range does 1.4 million chickens a week. So we’re really only in a few select restaurants, a few meal kit companies that we sell to some butcher shops. We don’t even have it in any grocery stores yet. So the best way, if you’re across the country would be to get it from pasturebird.com, and we ship it direct to doorstep, and try to make it convenient. And if you’re in Southern California or Northern California, reach out to your butcher, and if you go to a specialty butcher shop and see if they carry pasturebird, because we work with a lot of those folks, but we’re on this big kick to try to find a retail partner that does grocery, type of grocery stores to start working with and to try and get fresh meat into their business because I think that people are looking for this.

If you look at Google searches and trends, organic has hit this flat line where not so many people are interested in pasture-raised or regenerative or on this crazy increase. I think we need some retailers to start really trying to focus on this too. And then one other place, one of the resource, if you’re not in California, then I would say, check out getrealchicken.com that’s a site put together by the American Pastured Poultry Producers Association, and it lists out, I think about 500 different farmers across the country doing true pasture raised chicken. And you can put in your zip code and see if there’s somebody close to you because I’d always rather people buy local pasture-raised first. And then if you don’t have it or it’s not working out, then get somebody that goes nationwide like us.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Okay. So if you go to your local farmer’s market, sometimes farmers are there selling their birds, lambs, beef, and so we can talk to the farmer and say “okay, I want to come see your farm.”

Paul Grieve:

Exactly.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

And see what it looks like and how pastured this is.

Paul Grieve:

Well, so I always say that’s the number one thing, if you’re at a farmer’s market, is ask for a farm tour. And even if you never go, you’ll tell how authentic they are just by their reaction to your question, if they’re anything but absolutely excited and they want to bring you out and they start showing you pictures on their phone, that’s a good sign. If there are anything other than that, I’d be a little bit concerned about what’s going on there. Farmers, especially smaller scale, they’re usually so open and they love to show people what they’re doing. So it’s a simple hack that I have when you’re at the farmer’s market, just say, “Hey, could I come out for a tour and see your place sometime?” And they should be overjoyed when you ask them that, if they’re not maybe keep digging.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Yeah, then go on to the next farmer and see.

Paul Grieve:

Exactly.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Absolutely. I’m a farm kid, I grew up on a small farm, we had chickens, ducks, turkeys, for family use that were running around in their pastures. And then we had hogs, and beef cows, and milk cows, and unfortunately they’re fewer and fewer small family farms, but I’m excited to see that there are more people willing to do small micro farms, and that there are more farmers here in Iowa that are paying attention to growing grass fed and working on the idea of regenerative farming.

Paul Grieve:

It’s really important. I think the average age of a farmer in the US is about 65 years old now, and it continues to rise. A big part of that, I believe is factory farming because if I’m a kid who grew up around that, and I see my parents working so hard, and they’re in poverty and the farm is smelly and, do I really want to go do that? Or do I want to just go to town and probably get a job?

And I understand why people have left the family farm by and large. But what you see now is this resurgence of young people that want to get into farming, but they’re never putting up 600 foot poultry barn and they’re not doing it that way. They want to focus on these pasture-based and regenerative systems because there’s no way to quantify it, but it’s just a better feeling to walk onto a regenerative farm. And there’s an energy and an aura and just the happiness of the animals and thriving of the biodiverse plant species and wildlife. It just feels good. And it feels right. And I think you’re going to see younger people flock towards that system of production, but maybe not as interested in going into the industrial style.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Do you have any people come through the internships hanging out with you guys?

Paul Grieve:

In a way I don’t even believe in internships. We have people ask for internships all the time and we say, “I’d much rather pay you for your time and come stay with us for a while,” because this is not low skill work by and large, it’s year round. We need people with a great eye for detail, with a lot of care and compassion, and a super hard work ethic. It’s hard for me to have somebody come on for two weeks and then leave because there’s such a steep learning curve with this, we typically will offer more a stage like they would in the restaurant industry where, “okay, you can come for a year and I’m going to pay you, but I need you to commit to be in here for a while.” Otherwise there’s too much to learn.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Right. To come and actually be useful and be part of the team.

Paul Grieve:

Yeah. And to really get a taste for it, because one of the things that I didn’t realize is the 24/7, 365 nature of livestock farming. And it’s not for the faint of heart. We had no employees for a while and it was just me, and for a while it was just my brother-in-law doing the chores and it’s not like, “darn I don’t get to go on a week-long vacation.” It’s like, “I can’t even go on the town because I got to be back in three hours to go feed the animal.” It is no joke taking care of something 24/7, 365, and it’s a mindset change, and I don’t think you can really wrap your head around it in a two week period. I think you need to be exposed to it for three months, six months, the romance of it starts to wear off a little bit and you go, “okay, this is really hard work, and it’s a real thing.”

So we’re really glad though, we have a team of 10 people around 10 people on our farm in San Diego, super hard working, nobody makes minimum wage. Everybody has a year round job. And the cool thing is we’re not bringing these rural people into the city. We brought the business out to their rural community and we’ve employed a lot of people out there with these really good jobs. They have full benefits and it’s not a seasonal thing where they get to pick for awhile and then they got to go find something else. It really feels good to have that positive thing happening. We’re one of the only employers in this town of 100 people, we’re the only employer there. And to bring this positive, regenerative, and good jobs out there has been… I was surprised that would be such an impact for that area.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Well, Paul, I think we should wrap this up. This has been just phenomenal. And again, to the listeners, these are phenomenal, phenomenal chickens. I cannot recommend them highly enough, and I cannot recommend highly enough the benefit and the importance of looking for meat poultry that actually is pasture raised.

Paul Grieve:

Appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

Dr. Terry Wahls:

Okay. Hang on. Hang on—Wahls Warriors™, we want to hear from you. So we’ve talked about quite a few different things, Paul and I had a really great conversation, but I’m really curious, what was the one thing that you learned that you are going to begin implementing? Please leave a comment below. Now there are other videos, blogs, and articles on my website @terrywalhs.com. Please head over there, click around, and while you’re there please subscribe to my email list and become a Wahls Protocol®. Insider. You get instant access to my Wahls Diet™ Cheat Sheet. Plus you will get some exclusive content and special offers from my colleagues and my partners and help them in all this. And personal updates from me that I don’t share anywhere. Thank you so much for watching and I’ll catch you on my next interview.


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